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+------ Thread: Finding Rares: Insight from a Programmer (/showthread.php?tid=4505)
Finding Rares: Insight from a Programmer - RareHunterAlpha - 07-12-2004
That's right I'm an actual programmer! (I know Java, C++, and Visual Basic)Now, according to my experience with programming with "Randomizer Subroutines" (I can't believe I haven't thought of this earlier) the way a computer returns a random number, is indeed, based upon the computer's system time. (Bravo, beat time theorists)
What does this have to do with rares you ask? Well, most conventional randomizers use the system time by checking what it is, then looking at a chart, selects the corresponding pre-determined random number. With that in mind, many people have noticed that if you telepipe out of a level and then back in, the monsters are recreated, giving a chance for one of them to respawn as a rare monster. That means that when a monster is created the randomizer is executed. So, after a random number is selected, then the corresponding monster is spawned.
For example: (This isn't acutal data)
Time: beat 307.763
Random number output: 0.79284512
Cross-reference Section ID: REDRIA
Corresponding monster: Pal Rappy, drops RED HANDGUN
That seems to give more reason to the larger rappies (AKA Fatty Rappy), tending to drop better items than the normal ones, like Materials and more meseta.
Hope it helps in defining your own theories on rares!
Finding Rares: Insight from a Programmer - NetNomad - 07-12-2004
Hm, some proof for the beat-time theory. Interesting. Never knew that particular fact about randomizing, though.
...and that still wouldn't explain the day I got 4 pairs of Twin Psychoguns (from Love Rappies) at different times of the day... but then, there are those freak coincidences, I suppose.
Finding Rares: Insight from a Programmer - zero12410 - 07-12-2004
beat time ha sbeen proven false and sonic team has confermed it, check pso-p it's somewere in there. From a programing stand point, its just a ratio of drop=good to drop=crap, realy simple inc++, my own theory is: the more you play the more rare items you find *fact*
Finding Rares: Insight from a Programmer - Hrith - 07-12-2004
What are you babbling about ?
This is pure bullshit, and whatever skill you possess in programming hasn't help you figure anything about PSO, it seems.
ST themselves refuted the BTT.
PSO uses logarithms as randomizers, therefore the odds are pure random.
IDs won't affect rare monster appearance, let alone beat time.
Stop spreading bullshit now, the game confuses enough people as it is.
Finding Rares: Insight from a Programmer - decswxaqz - 07-12-2004
Have you got the web site link that shows ST with this information about denying the BTT?
He is right about the randomizer though. Although it does use some other factors, system time and cpu cycles do affect the random number generated. How does it use logarithms to get a random number? Either way it still needs to grab some sort of random number from somewhere. You can't compare two static numbers (in logs or not) and get two different numbers every time. Some sort of random number will still have to be generated somewhere along the line.
If you can show me the web page (preferably on ST web site) that denies the BTT theory then I will stop. But until that time, I will think that BT will affect rare monster appearance. Note different to drop rates/rare drop rates. Just the monster appearance. Call me a noob for believing it but that's my opinion =/
Finding Rares: Insight from a Programmer - Hrith - 07-12-2004
People usually want to believe it because they refuse the total lack of control over a game.
I cannot give you a link because I do not read Japanese, a friend who does reported it to me, they also confirmed that the method for unsealing SJS is 23000 kills.
As far as I know they did not confirm whether the monster appearance rate is 1/512 or 1/372 but they confirmed it was 1/1024 on Dreamcast, which alone ruins the BTT; a set rate destroys any chance of alternative interference.
Sounomi and another hacker whose name I forgot both proved the BTT wrong, but Sounomi lost interest in PSO before she could put it into a "readable" form.
And I meant algorithms not logarithms >_>
Finding Rares: Insight from a Programmer - decswxaqz - 07-12-2004
The rare monster appearance rate on the DC was abismal. So they obviously changed it for the GC version because people find a lot more of them. Who's to say they didn't just change the fixed apperance rate to a BTT theory rate?
I can't read Japanese either but I could get someone to translate it, so if you find it pass it along.
And you know that no amount of 'research' (repeated runs etc) into this will solve the problem. You might just be lucky/unlucky enough to miss the beat time theory due to the game's own randomness. You might do runs at the right time (ie more monsters time), and still be unlucky enough to not see one.
Anyway, we could argue all day. So I'll graciously bow out
Finding Rares: Insight from a Programmer - Grave_Guardian - 07-12-2004
My head hert from all that reading and thinking but I still like the Beat Time threary. But I am not going to argue about it's my opition. As well decs, I shall bow down.
Finding Rares: Insight from a Programmer - Hrith - 07-12-2004
"bow out" not "bow down" >_>
I know that experience is irrelevant to PSO, why are you mentioning this ?
PSO DC and PSO GC/Xbox and even BB are programmed exactly the same way, only the figures differ.
BTT is just wishful thinking that the player has some kind of control over the game.
Finding Rares: Insight from a Programmer - whiteninja - 08-12-2004
just because the odds of finding a rare enemy are 1/512 now it doesn't mean that every 512th rappy is a rare one.
in order to pick if an enemy is rare there would still be some sort of randomizing program involved. every randomizer needs to use time, it may not use beat time, it could actually use the gaming console's time clock to pick a random number, but it still needs to use time. i don't know what the program would be like, but in C it would be something like:
int randomhigh=512, randomlow=1;
int randomizer(int high, int low), displayrarebadguy(), displayregularbadguy();
if(randomizer(randomhigh, randomlow)==1) displayrarebadguy();
else displayregularbadguy();
and in the randomizer program is would use some of the functions in the "time.h" header file to obtain the beat time or actual time and make it a number from 1 to 512
for every 512th enemy being rare it would be like:
int badguycount;
int displayrarebadguy(), displayregularbadguy();
if(badguycount==512) displayrarebadguy();
else{ displayregularbadguy(); badguycount++;}
and for both of these, the second part of the program would happen each time you enter a room