Charge VS Beserk

[jarl]

so kef, after the force has done s/d/j/z, what do they do? run around pointlessly? sit around and let TP regenerate 'as is the optimum for PSO', or cast spells for about 150-200 dmg each? I wont try and do damage in later levels online (as i cant) but in earlier levels, what wrong? if you think that a melee FOney (or any other kind of FO) is such a bad thing, why not get the guide for how to melee as a FO removed from the site?

[Sephiroth Now]

Well, yes Jarl, I have played online, and if you use a Snow Queen(my favorite RA wep) people are like, ZOMFG!!! N00B!!! USE FS N00B!!! or TJS, ZOMFG, THERES NO WAY YOU ACTUALLY FOUND THAT. or the Psyco wand, ZOMFG!!!!!!! N00B!!!!!!! Use DB!!! and for the record, the Dark Bridge sucks ass. You'd be better off using a damn wand. The Prophets Of Motav is the best FO wep(in my opinion) and is so much better than P wand or DB. Online weapon stigmas are always going to exist unfortunately.
And my opinion rests at charge.

[jarl]

who the hell do you play with? "use DB LOLOLOL!!" does the fact that its impossible to get legitly not occur to them? >.>

(and DB is actually better if you just want the casting benefit)

also, anyone who calls you a noob for using a SQ instead of a FS is themselves a noob- it takes more skill to use a SQ to good effect, and it takes much longer to find a SQ (i.e- you need to find a FS with 30+ hit at least, then spend 45 PD's making it a SQ)

As for finding a TJS, that is impossible (though, many people have found SJS's and turned them into TJS's)


i too play online, though, it seems that i play with with more experienced and less judgemental people than you.

[Anti Hacker]

I understand that forces do less damage than other classes, jarl, I just don't think cheap weapons should be used by anyone online. If they're acceptable, then everyone should be able to use them.

You can't make exceptions. Stick to your ideals of play.

And Kefka I completely agree with what you say. Forces that do not support are bad forces, but there are a few things to consider here:

1. There are kinds of support that are not support techniques. Force attacks may not do uber high damage but their speed and stun time is useful if your party is lacking in a needle weilder.

2. Just as jarl says, when a fo is not needed for using support techniques they may as well do all the damage they can simply to speed up the run. You don't wand a slow run now, do you?

3. Forces who pretend they can equal the damage output of other classes in normal play are not useful. But a force doesn't need to pretend they can deal damage, at least some damage can be dealt and should be (when theyre not supporting) it's the timing that's essential.


What really marks a bad fo is someone who cannot alternate between various tasks at a rapid rate.

"A Force that does not support is a crappy Force, that's not debatable."

Correct, it's not a debate, but when not being needed to use support techs not dealing the possible amount of damage is time-wasting.

Act in the apropriate manner according to the situation.

[Hrith]

I said "support" in its broadest meaning. Razonde/Rafoie on Lilies to prevent them from spitting Megid is part of the support a Force must do.

Believe me, Jarl, there aren't many times when a Force has no support left to do (well, except in easy areas). Forces who cast S/D, J/Z and then start whacking at monsters without regard for the team are the worst kind.
Your team is more important than yourself (that goes for any class, too), if you fail to understand that, you are not qualified to go in a multiplayer game.

[Anti Hacker]

I said "support" in its broadest meaning. Razonde/Rafoie on Lilies to prevent them from spitting Megid is part of the support a Force must

I see. Then yes, I agree.

Actually, when I was playing the WoL quests (ep 4) I had people complain when I didn't use rafoie because it enabled those damn lizards to use their extremely damaging acid breath. If stunned constantly they will never be able to attack you.

I think if you time ra/gi attacks correctly and use them for the benefit of the team (stunning enemies where appropriate) then they are quite acceptable.

For instance, if you're stunning enemies that are to slow to attack in-between ra moves then your team will not take damage at all. Therefore you will not need to use resta. Also, this way, the enemies die slightly faster resulting in a faster run.

However there are many enemies that won't be stunned at all and even more which will attack generally in between ra techs making this tactic somewhat redundant in most situations.

[NetNomad]

I said "support" in its broadest meaning. Razonde/Rafoie on Lilies to prevent them from spitting Megid is part of the support a Force must do.

Believe me, Jarl, there aren't many times when a Force has no support left to do (well, except in easy areas). Forces who cast S/D, J/Z and then start whacking at monsters without regard for the team are the worst kind.
Your team is more important than yourself (that goes for any class, too), if you fail to understand that, you are not qualified to go in a multiplayer game.

A melee FOmar with Resta Merge can cast all support except anti at x2 range, and so if you put rabarta and gi/razonde somewhere on your action pallet, you have the means to freeze and the means to stun as well as provide adequate support techniques from a variety of positions around the room (leaving you the option to do melee damage while you watch the party). I'd agree with you on the point that FOs who pretend they can do awesome damage (legitimately) are fools. But "rarely having no support left to do"?

Ok, obviously there are places where you need to pay attention to enemies that need to be stunned; if you're in EN4 for example and you have a non-droid getting ganged up on by Delsabers, you'd need to stun them. A quick gi/razonde would solve that problem long enough for someone else to get some damage in (or a longer-lasting stun solution such as a droid coming along and releasing a freeze trap). But there are plenty of other stunning options - particularly for rangers (needles) and droids (traps). HUmar and HUnewearl are about the only classes who I'd say might have a significant problem with stunning, but then they can use gi/razonde themselves.

I'm not saying stunning isn't part of a FO's support role, but I've not had many situations where I had to pay very close attention to stunning.

But, then, you mentioned "easy areas," which my FOs are more or less confined to at this point due to their levels (I love how you conveniently forget that, for most of us, the game starts well before level 160 and constant EN/PW4 runs ).

[Sephiroth Now]

OK! Heres what I do. If I am using my force, I shall cast the support spells, heal people as neccessary, and then do some slight damage with a RA spell, since I don't really care about exp since he's lvl 192 and I usually use my force to help out a group of noob lvl 120's and stuff anyway. If I use my ranger, I equip Snow Queen and freeze things from a dsitance to help the team out.(my RA is 200 so exp doesn't matter to me) And my hunter, I euip my soul banish and help destroy groups and for bosses, I hack away with my S-rank katana. (once again, my HU is lvl 200 so exp doesn't really matter). that's how I play, I pretty much ALWAYS play a support whether I use FO or not, but that's just how I play. And if you are playing FO, the best wep for you is Prophets of Matov, whether you are support or not. So a FO's weapon should NEVER decide if they are support or not, it should be based on lvl and what the person using it is willing to do.

[Kitsadoodles]

to get back to the topic of charge and beserk vulcs for a second, what about when there is no force on the team? then no one's doing the support for the crazy vulcie people...
and back on the force topic, can't a force that does other things also be supportive? if a force with effective melee and survival power can effectively do enough damage and survive very well, couldn't they take the place of another class meant for that, like a hunter? whether everyone likes it or not, there are forces out there that like the challenge of meleeing, and do it well too! if they want to play that way, maybe there can be some conversation on who needs to change for the team? should it always be the force's job to stand back and let the others have all of the fun? all I'm saying is, support can mean ANYTHING as long as it helps, and is used properly. this goes the same for charge and beserk vulcs!

[Ade]

I agree with Kef on the Force part of the argument.

But I really so no difference between using Charge and Berserk except for when it comes to WHO the special inconveniences.

If you're in the final area (the Ruins 3 portion) of Tyrell's Last Hope (possibly the hardest area in PSO), people prettymuch NEED to be using charge weapons. They can't sacrifice their HP when bringers are firing multiple 1400 damage shots in dark rooms that have no light switch, and the hordes of enemies need to be taken down fast.

However, I see no problem with using Charge for the entire run if the teammates are smart enough to EXP tag. During tower runs I get snubbed as a HU by RAs who Demons everything before I can show my power, so in small rooms I like to annihilate enemies a bit, too. It evens out.

Also, good luck finding a Berserk Wep with enough hit to match the store-bought charge weps. Certainly some people have them, but not everyone.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Charge/Zerk/Spirit specials are of the same ATA.

Also, it seems to me, Kef, that you think that Berserk takes more skill because the player is putting himself at greater risk, and that it somehow requires more finesse to survive while using Berserk.

However, intentionally putting oneself in danger is not a show of skill. It is foolhardiness. The amount of risk that one places on himself is not a good way to measure skill.