Charge VS Beserk

[NetNomad]

If you're in the final area (the Ruins 3 portion) of Tyrell's Last Hope (possibly the hardest area in PSO), people prettymuch NEED to be using charge weapons. They can't sacrifice their HP when bringers are firing multiple 1400 damage shots in dark rooms that have no light switch, and the hordes of enemies need to be taken down fast.

Tip: Around here, don't use the names of quests only available on Scht (it just leads to other pointless discussion, trust me ¬_¬).

But yeah, there are definitely "no-berserk" rooms, even Kef has used that term to describe some areas before.

However, I see no problem with using Charge for the entire run if the teammates are smart enough to EXP tag. During tower runs I get snubbed as a HU by RAs who Demons everything before I can show my power, so in small rooms I like to annihilate enemies a bit, too. It evens out.

Ade, Ade Ade. You my friend are a barrel of laughs.

Demons is commonly part of a ranger's support role, for those who use Demons weapons (RAmar/RAmarl, anyway; the droids have reduced demons). Whereas charge vulcans are pure and cheap damage, thus they take a dump all over the HU's support role. Anyone can kill with Demons, and it's usually the team's HUs who deliver the final hit after a RA connects with something like a Bringers Rifle. Is that not enough for you? Because I'm terribly sorry for not allowing you to do ALL the damage.

Also, good luck finding a Berserk Wep with enough hit to match the store-bought charge weps. Certainly some people have them, but not everyone.

Then maybe we shouldn't do uber damage if we didn't find our weapons, hm?

Also, it seems to me, Kef, that you think that Berserk takes more skill because the player is putting himself at greater risk, and that it somehow requires more finesse to survive while using Berserk.

However, intentionally putting oneself in danger is not a show of skill. It is foolhardiness. The amount of risk that one places on himself is not a good way to measure skill.

If you're going to do sacrificial damage, you've got to inconvenience yourself with a suitable handicap. And meseta is NOT a handicap because a blind monkey could play this game and pick up enough sellable items to support a charge habit (barring perhaps Vjaya XD).

[Ade]

If you're going to do sacrificial damage, you've got to inconvenience yourself with a suitable handicap.

Handicapping oneself is not necessairly skillful. It can be stupidity.

I didn't post here for a lecture. If you don't want to listen to me then fine.

[Hrith]

Even if it can be the Ranger's role to use Demon's on monsters with high HP in areas like Tower, Seabed or Desert, nothing justifies hogging experience.
Bringer's Rifle is my main rifle as my RAmarl, but I never finish off a monster I used Demon's on if I know the other party members did not tag it (especially androids, for whom exp tagging is not easy) -- unless the monster poses a significant threat, of course.
It's quite simple: usually, when I use Demon's (can be several times on the same target), I do not use normal/hard attacks after that, so this is the opposite of tagging, in a sense.

Also, it seems to me, Kef, that you think that Berserk takes more skill because the player is putting himself at greater risk, and that it somehow requires more finesse to survive while using Berserk.

However, intentionally putting oneself in danger is not a show of skill. It is foolhardiness. The amount of risk that one places on himself is not a good way to measure skill.

It's not really about skill (although having low HP because of Berserk makes you an adept at dodging), it's just that since Berserk uses up your HP, you won't be abusing it, because it may kill you.
Charge has no handicap (except much lower accuracy), so it's just a hogger's special.
In that regard, Berserk is a much more team-friendly special attack.


As for Berserk Vulcans, I really wouldn't use that on a Ranger. Hunters (or even Forces) would miss a lot, so it could be okay, but a Ranger with hit% Berserk Vulcans would lower their HP faster than with a Berserk S-Rank Needle, while stunning only one monster and suffering from the mechgun animation ghastly recoil. A suicidal weapon, IMO.

[Anti Hacker]

Although they can be useful in a boss situation, since you really can't stun bosses. And there's only one boss in the arean. However you obviously need healing or you get horribly horribly mamed. It's easy for the team to tag a boss and then have a force support a few 'zerkers'.

Many bosses attack fairly slowly or only at a certain angle while in certain positions (the dragons) so the recoil isn't suuuch a great problem unless you're up against a speedy attackaing and damaging boss.

Also the ep 2 mini-bosses could be a good oppportunity to zerk if you're well covered. Unless you zerk the gi-gue's sheild. Then you're probably screwed.

[K_I_R_E_E_K]

if a person is killing more then the other players then he is in the wrong team and should move over to a stronger team (my opinion)
bersek is very acurate compared to the charge, but charge makes you lose only meseta, and thats important since meseta you can find it lot's, bersek is bad for teams since you are losing health without the enemys touching you
charge vulcans 50% are the same as a berseck vulcan 30%

[jarl]

ok then, question eventually got answered

@ kef: i dont have enough ATA to melee, except in easy area's, and my FO is only lvl 133 so she's not about to start melee'ing PW4, so we're ok there >.> (but seriously, no matter what, i wouldnt melee a hard quest like PW4. maybe some of the EN quests when she gets to lvl 160+, and PW1, but if someone gets hurt, then its anti/resta- i dont forget im a force when im meleeing

@ ade:

However, I see no problem with using Charge for the entire run if the teammates are smart enough to EXP tag

i thought the whole problem was that people can't EXP tag when people are whoring charge/zerk vulcans? saying 'they're not good enough to tag' is just inconsiderate of other people.

alse ade, dont you think it takes more skill to survive at a lower level when you dont have much HP for the area? think of using zerk as having HP problems, and you'll see why it takes more skill to survive using beserk. intentionally putting yourself in danger is stupid, but if someone never got hit on full HP you'd think they were skilled (like chaosmagnum) so if he never gets hit and uses zerk instead of charge, would you then think him a fool, or still think of him as skilled?

@ kefka again: forces arent meant to tank, therefor a force shouldnt be getting hit, therefor a force should be able to zerk, as long as they are mindful of their surroundings (i.e- going into a room with decent amounts of HP, waiting for all enemies to spawn before zerking (so they dont get a nasty surprise) etc., though that applies to all classes)

[Anti Hacker]

That wouldn't work so well in Ep 4 where you have zuzus swooping all over the place. Some rooms are smaller and have enemies that leap at you dealing damage where you dont have a chance to move effectively out of the way. Forces aren't supposed to tank but they will take damage all the same in some areas and having less HP in the first place means zerking might not be such a hot idea.

However if you're in a nice large room with no charging enemies and you have the enemies right where you want them and are gatunteed not to get hit, zerking should be fine. That is, providing you don't need to be right up next to your team healing them. And you probably do, if you're playing a force

[jarl]

thats why i dont play EP.4

[Kitsadoodles]

I think that this brings us back to the point that anyone can use charge or beserk mechs as long as they use them responsibly! if a melee FO can use them and be mindful of not getting hit by enemies in the middle, then that's fine. if...someone else can use them and save the EXP for the team while supporting themselves too, that should also be fine. I think it really all depends on who you are and where you are.

[whiteninja]

Handicapping oneself is not necessairly skillful. It can be stupidity.

In my PW4 runs, I use a 4-slot "Frame", no shield, no mates, no Deband, and no Resta. I got to the ET's Floor 8 before getting hit. That does take skill.

Other random things:
- I full out Zerked a PW3 before, and I didn't die once. Colt did not have any problem supporting me as a Fomar either.
- I have actually killed bosses before people tagged. Gal Gryphon cowers at my 90/90/0/90 GGB. (It was an accident there though)
- No, I don't slow down to let others tag. I play everything like it is that PW3. Yes, even Forest.
- Never trust another player to support you, because they cannot always be trusted, and sometimes, you are solo.
- I am a horrible "team player" and I admit to that. The way I see it, I kill stuff, and then the whole team goes on. Whether or not the whole team killed stuff is not my concern, only that the whole team moves.