Discussion on Beating Weenie Ark Decks

[UK Jester]

Ok people, lots of problems beating small cost Arkz creature decks if you are a Hunter.

I welcome all ideas but for starters I'll set out some ideas and theories on how to beat these decks or at least make life a little more balanced.

1) Never move into a corner, this makes the Arkz cost to corner you as low as 2 rather than 3 or 4. If an Arkz gets a low dice roll you can start manuvering towards them.

2) High movement Hunters are preferable IMO - they may lose some AP but against low cost creatures this may not be such a problem.

3) Roundslay is useful for killing lots of weenies quickly, and will give you quick dice bonuses. Cross Slay is a good substitute otherwise unless the Arkz player stacks other low cost creatures in every corner. I mention this seperately from point 6 as these 2 action cards are fairly easy to get hold of.

4) Companion is a must, especially if you don't have Action Disruptor items. Arkz Claw attacks with Attack 6, you Companion, you now have an escape route out of the circle of death. Counter or Counter+ are other viable defense cards although not as reliable. Any item that has Death Companion can also work effectively.

5) Try these fun Assist cards: Fly, Skip Set and Territory. They may be short term but they can also get you out of the circle of death or even better prevent 1 from happening. The mag Rati also Aerial Status.

6) Try these action cards to wipe out a load of low hp creatures - some more risky than others, and some far rarer than others sadly. Madness, Gifoie, Rabarta, Razonde, Earthquake, Explosion, Virus and Tempest.

7) To hell with the creatures, if you are high enough level or just plain lucky try frying the Arkz with Grants. Other lesser options are multiple hit long range weapons and techniques, but only if the Arkz is close enough.

8) Using Action Disruptor items is useful. God's Shield Genbu is IMO the best Action Disruptor against weenies. Also some weenies have Death Companion so an Ability Trap item like Club of Laconium can be useful.

9) Some weenie decks also utilise a couple of high cost creatures to deliver the finishing blows and speed the game up. If you are able to, avoid killing this creature as it will tie up points useable for low cost creatures that can surround you. Of course you will need some strong defence and good movement capabilities to get around the big brute, protect your equipment and finaly bash the Arkz.

Well, there you have my ideas on how to stop those annoying weenie decks that get you stuck for the whole 30 minutes. Of course my ideas do have some flaws. Lots of Episode 3 low cost creatures are N cards. The assist cards and lots of the Action cards are R cards or rarer. The defence cards are also nice but they cost 3 to 4 Action points, so unless you kill lots of creatures for the dice bonus you will probably be stuck with taking 3 attacks undefended to kill 1 creature.

Overall the Arkz weenie/spam/low cost deck is easy to build and a nightmare for your Hunter to beat. Good luck everyone.

Regards

UK Jester

[Serpent7]

Good guide!

[Risu]

Some comments:

- Creatures with the 'Warp' ability (e.g. Sinows, Sorcerers) are very effective vs cheap decks that block the route to the Story Characters with small creatures. Just warp past. This thread is focused on Heroside play so I will stick to that, but Rufina+Sinow Zele is the best anti-spam deck in the game.


- Spammers will always have more assists than you, Skip Set is practically useless against them. Fly can be great in 4P vs, and useful when your dice bonus is high in 2P vs, but the main Assist card you need is Assistless. If you don't have it, use Assist Vanish instead.


- Play Territory with Assistless (Territory first of course) vs spam / Slimes. Territory on its own is no use as it will just be cleared.


- Assist Vanish is good for clearing multiple Mine Brightness / Cave Wind before an Assistless, or if you don't have Assistless at least it clears what's down. Available from the shop, not rare in the slightest.


- If you don't have Assistless yet, take cheap Assist cards (DON'T use expensive ones, 1-2 pts is best) that help you clear the enemy AP boosters.


- Assistless is available from the shop as a Special Coin, while hard to get it's the most reliable way. AFAIK the value of the cash spent in the shop doesn't affect the chance of a Coin, so buy 50 meseta cards if you're going for a Special.


- Good spam players use Assists not Action cards to increase damage, making Action Disrupters useless. Also, using AC disruptors means all your SC attack cards (Virus etc) are no use. Finally, it also cuts down your allowance for weapons massively, when you're almost guaranteed to be aiming to hit 3 enemies a turn. having 1-2 cost weapons behind your Genbu again makes Virus / Tornado useless, as they will all be killed when the Genbu causes you to Virus yourself. Virus & Tornado are crucial to a Heroside win vs Arkz spam and should not be removed to accomodate a sheild. Genbu is a terrible choice for a spam fight (sorry Jester ).


- Most spammers also use Companion a lot, hence they are aware you may try and use it to open a hole. Good spammers either attack for 1-2 damage with a 3HP creature or just don't attack at all with the key blocking cards. Don't expect to be able to open holes with Companion against any spammer worth their salt, but it's worth carrying in case the spammer is a relative n00b.


- Be careful with Defence cards vs AP boosters, e.g. Mine Brightness and Cave Wind, things that affect enemy stats (such as TP Defence or Weakness) won't work. The defence card only affects the base creature itself, the Assist's AP boost applies afterwards.


- Virus is a good choice, Round Slay is ok, the other Attack cards mentioned are average at best. Tempest has no place at all in an anti-spam deck, it damages creatures with 8HP or more. The best anti-spam attack card is Tornado, available from very low levels (20+), but it can be expensive to play. Madness is sheer lunacy as a Heroside player, do not use.


- Playing a Force vs spam is not a good idea as you have to have both tech cards in hand and dice rolled to be effective, although Gizonde is the single best way to hit evasive Arkz SC. Inolis, high TP (2 and 4-cost) canes, Tornado, 3x Gifoie, 3x Gizonde (plus other cards obviously) is the way to go if you choose a Force. If you're playing a Grants deck (legitimately earned anyway), then you're high enough level to know what to do, but for the sake of completeness... stay focused on killing what's around you early on, you can't Grants when you have no items. Inolis, Summit Moon, Dengeki (stay next to each other to boost each other's TP) Preta works well with Grants.


- Build your EX meter early, but focus on heading for the SC once it hits +1 / +2. The spammer's achilles heel is the EX meter, they will be on lower dice than you to start with - until Requiem is played, at which point they will also have good dice. When you're building your EX meter vs spammers you're also building theirs for later in the fight if you wait too long. Do not use Waste weapons under any circumstances.


- Make sure you can deal with plenty of Assist cards. This is the key to beating spammers.

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Example Heroside deck below. Note this relies on you knowing what you're doing during the draw phase, NEVER burn all your weapons, always have at least one to equip after your DEF phase.


Deck: "Scum?" (4P Battle)

Both players in your team should use this deck.


Character:
Saligun (MV3, low-cost halfguard)


Items (9):
Sange x3 (Low-cost Slayer, Battle Recovery)
Yamoto x3 (Minor slayer, multi)
Mechgun x3 (Minor Slayer)


Action (attack)(7):
Round Slay
Stab
Lock on 3 x2
Tornado
Virus x2


Action (defence) (10):
Resist
Protection x2
Defender x2
Solid x2
Companion
Grow Guard
TP Defence


Assist (4):
Territory
Assistless x2
Fly

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Deck notes:

- The key to the deck is to try and render many of the opponent's DEF cards useless by scoring 6-7 damage. A standard Saligun hit will do 6 damage to all Minor HP creatures from the off, more if AP is raised via Grow Guard, making any 1 or 2 point def almost useless (except TP Def) as it can't block the damage.
This forces the opponent to use 3-point DEF cards and leaves your SC free to Virus / Tornado when the ATK dice are high rather than spending lots of points on attack cards. It also allows you to set a decent weapon and kill a creature on a roll of 5, and covers low dice if your weapons are equipped, the Yamoto can often get you two kills even on a roll of 1-1.


- Hence, presuming opposing 1 and 2-point DEF is not stopping you, Lock on 3 in the deck is very useful. Always try and play it if the opponent rolls DEF 3+. It prevents 3 key cards: MC (or other type) Guard, Companion, Weakness.


- The Sange is the preferred weapon, the low-cost slayer gets 50% additional damage on all creatures in the traditional cheap MC deck. It also has 3TP which negates one of Saligun's weaknesses to a large extent.


- The Yamoto is the secondary weapon of choice, due to both minor slayer and hitting 2 squares. A good weapon for a single hit after playing an attack card with the Sange.


- The Mechguns are an absolute last resort, in the deck for when you have a just couple of points to spare in the set phase, either due to poor dice or going for the kill. Avoid equipping if possible.


- Virus and Tornado are obvious, some may wish to switch the quantity around. I use 2 Virus as they are cheaper (3 cost as opposed to 4, can play 2 on a 6 or play and hit twice on a 5) and damage Gilchichs and Recoboxes. The one Tornado is usually enough, you need to roll a 6 to use it and hit with weapons twice, which is too luck-specific for my tastes (and my luck!).


- The other attack cards focus on giving you area affect options to clear multiple creatures / try and hit the Arkz SCs. Lock on 3 is vital for the reasons noted above.


- Your biggest enemy is use of Companion by the opposition, always take note of their def dice and think carefully how you attack when they have 3+, if you must hit without Lock on 3 use a damaged weapon not a fresh one. Very, very unlikely your opponent will bring Counter but be aware of it when they roll 4 DEF till you see what their card mix is.


- Be aware of a Recobox's Stall (aka Earth Bind) ability, sets all MV to 1 in the squares around it. This can *really* screw you up, if a Recobox is in your way both characters should remove ASAP.


- On defence, most cards are cheap(ish) due to multiple incoming attacks. Solid is excellent, but useless if things go badly and the enemy get lots of AP Boost down (Mine Brightness etc). I sometimes go with 2 Solid, my current version uses 1. Resist is a last resort card. Note TP defence does NOT cancel the affects of AP Boost assists, or the deck would be stuffed full of it.


- The assist cards are crucial. Never plays Territory without an Assistless to lock it down unless totally unavoidable, the opponents will have many assist cards and will set over yours. As soon as you get an Assistless, play it - don't wait for any current Mine Brightness / March of the Meek to expire, just play over what you can and live with the rest. Territory+Assistless can you win you the battle, if you can achieve this between you and your partner's cards you're away. Note that it will also stop you setting a second weapon of the same type, so communicate to your partner and play at the END of your team's set phase, not before you / your team-mate sets items!


- Fly is necessary against more skilled 12-year old MC-using opponents who won't attack with blocking creatures, preventing you from using Companion on them. Most effective in a team deck, play it on your team-mate allowing them their full MV3 allowance to close with the Arkz SC. Assistless isn't necessary if you can set Fly and your team-mate can move in the same turn.


- I can't stress this enough - play Assistless ASAP, stopping the enemy AP boost assist (Mine Brightness / March of the Meek) is crucial. If you don't have Assistless swap for Assist Vanish / Powerless Rain, but be warned the deck is significantly less effective.


- Final note: This deck is obviously very specific; if you want to give yourself a chance in the event your suspected spammer uses something else, swap one / two Mechguns with Partisans and one Yamoto with a Rocket Punch - both are High-cost Slayer, and thus will combo up well with your attack cards. If you do this swap an extra Tornado in for one Virus as it doesn't hurt the Partisans whereas Virus does.


All other weapons and cards work ok, the main thing you're missing is a Rampage attack. On defence, the deck is weak vs. Techniques - swap Dodge / Seal in for Solid and Treatment in for Reduction if you want to boslter vs. techs.

[Risu]

Part 2 (Over word limit heh):


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Single player version:

Character:
Saligun (MV3, low-cost halfguard)


Items (9):
Sange x3 (Low-cost slayer, battle recovery)
Yamoto x3 (Minor slayer, multi)
Mechgun x3 (Minor Slayer)


Action (attack)(7):
Round Slay x2
Stab
Lock on 3 x2
Tornado
Virus


Action (defence) (10):
Dodge x3
Guard x2
Resist
Avert
Companion
Grow Guard
TP Defence


Assist (4):
Territory x1
Assistless x3


- Main change here is you don't have to put up with two opponents ganging up on one person, so you can be more aggressive with your Assistless. If you don't have 3xAssistless replace with Assist Vanish / Powerless Rain / Land Price (expensive, 4-cost - if you take this also use Squeeze). Grow Guard is also much more useful in solo.


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As I said at the top though, the most effective anti-spammer deck I have found is Rufina+Sinow Zele (the main weakness of that deck vs Arkz is Counter on your SC, and spammers largely prefer Companion).

[UK Jester]

Thank you Risu, I'm glad you have commented on and added to my original post. I believe that a lot of players will benefit from your anti-spam decks and theories.

Regards

UK Jester

[decswxaqz]

With your permissions, I will make this sticky .

[UK Jester]

I don't have a problem with this being made a sticky post.

Regards

UK Jester

[Risu]

Nae problem at all...

[Schoichet]

Thank you Risu, I'm glad you have commented on and added to my original post. I believe that a lot of players will benefit from your anti-spam decks and theories.

Regards

UK Jester

and just as meny will suffer from it, lol.

oh well, i havent tryed out those decks but is anyone online in ep3? if you want to test it ill be the spamer or the person useing that deck...

[Risu]

and just as meny will suffer from it, lol.

All Arkz 1-cost spammers deserve to suffer, that's the point of the post. The deck is called "Scum?" after all....